Rob Alvarez Bucholska
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Life Questification and Disability Advocacy with Sierra Grandy | Episode 376

 

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“Questify Your Life” system that also works alongside disabilities. We sit with Sierra Grandy to discuss how she gamifies life using her unique “Questify Your Life” system. They explore Sierra’s approach to living life as a series of quests and how gamification can drive engagement and personal growth.

Sierra Grandy is a recent lawyer, disability advocate, and business owner. She plays her life as if it were a quest and teaches others to do the same by using her “Questify Your Life” system.

Rob is a host and consultant at Professor Game as well as an expert, international speaker and advocate for the use of gamification and games-based solutions, especially in education and learning. He’s also a professor and workshop facilitator for the topics of the podcast and LEGO SERIOUS PLAY (LSP) for top higher education institutions that include EFMD, IE Business School and EBS among others in Europe, America and Asia.

 

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Lets’s do stuff together!

Looking forward to reading or hearing from you,

Rob

 

Full episode transcription (AI Generated)

Rob:
Hey, this is Professor Game where we interview successful practitioners of games, gamification and game thinking to help us multiply engagement and loyalty. I’m Rob Alvarez. I’m a consultant, I’m a coach, and I’m the founder here at Professor Game and I’m also a professor of gamification and game inspired solutions at IE University, IE Business School, efmd, EBS University, and other places around the world. And before we dive into the interview, if you’re struggling with engagement in your business and are looking to find out how to make your users stay with you, you will find our free community full of resources quite useful. You can find it for free in the links below in the description. So, engagers, welcome back to another episode of the Professor Game podcast. And we have Sierra with us today. So, Sierra, we need to know, are you prepared to engage?

Sierra Grandy:
Absolutely.

Rob:
Let’s do this. Let’s go. We have Sierra Grandy. Grandy, is that, is that right?

Sierra Grandy:
Yep. Correct.

Rob:
Who is a recent lawyer, disability advocate and business owner. And she plays her life as if it were a quest and teaches others to do the same thing using her questify your life system. So, Ciara, is there anything else we need we should know before we dive into our questions?

Sierra Grandy:
I think that covers it. That’s a really good bio. That’s always the hardest part for me is being like, what did I write several like a while ago, what did I identify as then and now? What do I identify now? That. That worked. That worked well.

Rob:
Fantastic. I, I, I was saying your name and I remembered there was, was or is. I’m not even sure. This game company called Sierra.

Sierra Grandy:
Oh, I don’t know.

Rob:
I’m trying to remember which because I, I, I, I can almost see the logo just flying in in my head. But Sierra Games, maybe Sierra Entertainment.

Sierra Grandy:
Okay, I’ll have to check that out. I mean, I get it was founded.

Rob:
In 1979, but it disappeared. So they did have some very, very big stuff. They had King’s Quest, Half Life, which is where Counter Strike came from, Leisure Suit Larry, which is probably not PG content, and some other stuff I’m seeing here on Wikipedia, but yes, it’s definitely something that existed. It used to be Activision Blizzard, apparently, but yes. Well, there you go.

Sierra Grandy:
Now if I go to a trivia night, I might have, like, it might be a little more helpful. I am surprisingly terrible at trivia.

Rob:
It depends on the topic, I guess. And you kind of have to get lucky, right? When there’s trivia, you never know what’s coming up. Knowing Everything is not a thing that is absolutely true.

Sierra Grandy:
If it’s psychology, Taylor Swift or gamification, I maybe even a little bit of law in there, I’ve got it. If it has anything to do with things that actually matter, I’m not sure.

Rob:
Makes sense. So Sierra, you, you were talking about law and all these things that you’re into and we, in the pre interview chat, we were discussing some of the many things that you do. So yeah, if we were to follow you around for a day, a week or whatever you want to go into, how would that look and feel like we want to, you know, sort of understand what does your life look like at this point? Yeah, I guess.

Sierra Grandy:
As twofold, it really, it really depends. So I’m a business owner which means that everything kind of in my life surrounds that business. So I don’t do a 9 to 5. Rather I just try my best to get things done if I have the energy to do so. I’m disabled and neurodivergent so I often have like energy issues. So I don’t know what the day is going to bring. But day to day I. An example would be like today, wake up, get ready, procrastinate, doing emails, answer a couple emails, get set up, all of this, talk to you. And then I have a bunch of advocacy work because I’m in leadership positions on three different disability mental health councils. I consider it like marketing, but more so. It’s a huge perk of being a business owner is that I can give my time to organizations in my community and help them. And throughout all of this I am making everything into a quest or a game. A quest is more of a mindset. Like this is like Dungeons and Dragons making stories, having things be a very specific vibe, knowing the start to the conclusion. That’s kind of how a quest is for me is goal setting and then a game is adding challenge and reward and making it happen. So most like, not all games are quests, but most quests have some game elements in them anyway. So I do that and I like, I’ll dress up and when I’m dressing up I’m like, what Persona am I going to be today? It was really helpful. It’s helpful to know it’s helpful to give permission to be silly and creative and playful and there’s a lot of research on play and so I’m really trying to just incentivize, incentivize myself to enjoy life more. Um, so that’s a little bit about what some of the stuff I am doing and Some days, like yesterday, I do public speaking. So yesterday I woke up and I went and taught police officers in a crisis intervention training about mental health recovery. So I shared my story, which is what I do often. I speak on mental health recovery and neurodiversity and talk about, like, When I was 11, I was first hospitalized. By 14, I was in residential treatment, and by 18, I was undergoing electroconvulsive therapy, which is modern day shock therapy, and then in and out of different schools and hospitals. And I got really lucky in 2019 and got into mental health recovery, which correlates with also starting to use gamification. And so those were together as I built more and more of my life and finished my degree, psychology degree with an econ minor. And I then was like, you know, I’m not ready to work, I don’t know what to be doing. And so I took the LSAT and applied to law school, got into law school, did law school, which still can’t believe that I survived that, took the bar, passed it, and then I was like, never mind. I don’t want to. I don’t want to full time practice law. I don’t want to do that. I want to. I do pro bono work for the disability community, but I don’t want to, like, make my living off of that. So that’s a bit about me.

Rob:
Cool, cool. And, you know, you’ve discussed like many ways in which you implement what you do and, you know, since you’ve been doing it for a while as well, I’m sure you’ve had ups and downs like we all have, you know, and we would like to know of a time where actually one of those downs, one of the times where you were setting out to do something and just, you know, for whatever reason, for you, one of your clients, one of the people you work with, whatever you want to go for. It can be anonymous, by the way. I’m happy with being anonymous.

Sierra Grandy:
Yeah.

Rob:
It just didn’t work, right. It just didn’t go your way or your client’s way. And how did you recover from that? What did you learn from that? Or wherever you want to guide us there.

Sierra Grandy:
Oh, man, I have so many. Because the more you do. So I think of things like, do play Dungeons and Dragons because I know you talk a lot about it, but do you play Dungeons and Dragons?

Rob:
Haven’t. It’s, it’s. I don’t want to say it’s a regret because I did see people in high school playing Dungeons and Dragons and that was a massive nerd. Don’t get me wrong, but I saw the people playing Dungeons and Dragons. I said, oh, my goodness, those nerds. Right. Being. Being a nerd myself. Yeah. Or a geek or whatever, you know, is most appropriate these days. And I, I very much regret not having taken that a bit more seriously, if, if that makes any sense. And then after that, it’s, it’s, you know, I’ve, I’ve had a. I’ve been curious about this for the past, I would say, eight years and struggling to find time and focus to actually get started.

Sierra Grandy:
Yeah, absolutely.

Rob:
On Dungeons and dragons or any RPGs. But, yeah, bottom lines, I haven’t.

Sierra Grandy:
Yeah. And that’s why I play. When I, When I play Dungeons and Dragons, I’m the dm. I like, I like to make the consequences rather than make the choices. But with that, to answer your question about failure, I’m going to use a D and D kind of an analogy, which is the more you’re doing, the more you’re rolling the dice. And when you’re rolling the dice, the likelihood of you getting a NAT1 much higher. So the more you do, the more you try, you will fail. But failure often is one of the best story mechanics, and that’s how I try to think of it. Oh, man, there’s so many different failures. Some of them are really dark. Some are like, my second year of law school, I had like, my main quest at the time was be a law clerk, do good work and try to get a job for, like, once I graduate law school. But I had this task that I just could not get my head around and I ended up in a meltdown because I’m autistic and that happens. And I was under my desk and I felt like I was just, well, failing. And with that, I learned a lot of things about how to process those emotions in a way where story is helpful. So, yes, I am under, under my desk because I’m having a meltdown because this is not working for me. But also I realized that path, like what I was doing was just not working for other people, though. Oh, man. I got in a fight on LinkedIn. It wasn’t a fight, but like, I’m like, when I’m thinking failure, this is. It’s fights too strong. But it was a disagreement because what I had done is on LinkedIn. I talk a lot about neurodiversity, mental health, disability advocacy, because that’s a great audience and maybe in an unpopular opinion, but I love LinkedIn. LinkedIn is so clear on the tone you are supposed to be throwing out there that it’s just. I’m like, oh, I will use that. But like, spin it so that people can hear about ableism. But this one was like somebody had been. Had wrote an article for a law firm about neurodiversity and they had used the term neurodiverse incorrectly. Because neurodiverse is just a shortened version of neurodiversity. Neurodiversity, all brains are different. Neurodiverse, a bunch of different brains coming together. The goal of the neurodiversity movement is to have a neurodiverse, like group of people and organizations. Neurodivergent people are the minority. Neurodiverse and neurodivergent are used synonymously. And it is my silliest pet peeve. I wish I could let it go. So I wrote this out. Like, I was like, just trying to gently, like, correct the article, teach people, have a learning lesson. And the author saw it and like commented, and that’s. That’s what I call a LinkedIn fight. It wasn’t even a fight, but he then deleted his comment. I deleted the whole post. It was. It was fine. But I think about that and the reason I bring that up as a. As a failure is because again, the more you try, the more you learn that sometimes you’re going to swing and miss. Yeah.

Rob:
Yep. I mean, there’s a. You know, they always talk about Michael Jordan’s thing of, you know, how many he talks about how many shots he missed. Right? Yes. He got many shots, winning shots and all that stuff. And it’s also because he took a lot of shots, he missed a lot of shots. And he trained a lot to make sure that, you know, under the right conditions, he would be able to take the good shots at the right time. So you have to take a lot of shots to be able to make.

Sierra Grandy:
I’m sorry, interrupt, but I like to think of it like runescape, where anything you do, you’re getting experience points. It’s also like the neuroplasticity part of your brain. But I prefer the gamification logic of it where anything you’re doing, everything is a practiced skill. So you’re putting effort into something, any amount of effort that is then building up a skill tree or a level. And the more you do, the more you can kind of unlock. And that’s how I think of everything. Because I don’t have enough time to put experience into everything. I want to learn, but I know that I can learn those things if I spend Time working on the skill tree. So then I will like, I literally, I literally pin my quests I’m gonna like. And so I have several boards over here that you can see and one here that you can’t. And with that I have like, it just goes with the quest fire life system because it’s the journey, the character and the quest and it’s just a way to bring yourself into a fantasy type of game while still participating in this world.

Rob:
Cool. Love it. Love all of it. So Ciara, let’s actually turn it around and talk about a time where it did work, things went your way and you were happy about the results you got and you want to talk about it essentially.

Sierra Grandy:
Oh man, I’ve been thinking about this. Cause I knew this was coming and I, I’m an incredibly lucky person. I’m. I. After I got into mental health recovery a lot of things just kind of fell my way and I’m really, really grateful for that. And so there’s been a lot of things that have went well. Just like passing the bar. That was a whole thing. The bar exam was a lot. And I completely convinced myself that I had not passed because I was also writing a thesis during some of our prep because I procrastinate doing some stuff by doing other things. That’s one. And I also had a huge keynote last Friday. That’s another huge success for me. That was an event that I helped create. They asked me to come in and then try to like to decide some of the like specifics for their neurodiversity content after me. And I was just that that’s a win it. And with that I want to actually ask you a silly, it’s a silly question but it’s going. In case any of your audience doesn’t know what neurodiversity is, I’d like to give an example. But when you in your mind’s eye imagine a, let’s say a sloth in a sundress. So an animal, a piece of clothing in your mind’s eye, what pops up? What, what is your imagined sloth in a sundress? If you can add language to that.

Rob:
For some reason it was a black and white sloth and they dress the sundress. I imagined a dress which was yellow.

Sierra Grandy:
Oh, fascinating. Um, I, I love that. So for me I live with amphantasia so I don’t get a visual. Um, I have, I have depth and vibes and I know there is a sloth there because it’s all story based. So it’s like I’ve been told that, so it’s there, but I don’t get the actual visual. And that’s only about 1% of the population, or at least it’s theorized, who just don’t have an imagination like that. But the. The difference, the huge difference between the way I imagine a sloth and you imagine a sloth with just an animal and a piece of clothing is what neurodiversity really is. Every brain is different and we process information differently. And so when you do that exercise in a huge group of people, you start to realize like some people, their initial imagination is the sloth from Zootopia. Sometimes people are like they. They create a ton of context because why else would a sloth be wearing a sundress? But it’s just a really good way to point out that everyone has a bias to believing that what’s in their brain is what like is happening in other people’s brains. And that’s just not the case. And I was just curious to. I don’t wanna see like how. How your brain works.

Rob:
Cool. Love it. And. And Sierra after do having this. You have a system. Even the questify your life system. What does that look like? Do you. Is this a series of steps? Is this just an approach? Do you put on some lens? Like what does that look like? Can you give us a. Maybe a pitch or. I don’t know. How would you like to approach this?

Sierra Grandy:
So questify your life is a system of three parts. You have your journey, your character and your quest. Your journey you can think of like your map. Like if you’re in Skyrim, you have the beginning of your map, but you know that you have this big map. It’s how you play the game. Your quests may be your destination or your goals or your objectives or your tasks. But the way that you get to your quest, the way that you participate in the world, that’s your journey. I always recommend that people take the time to identify and add language to their values so that they know that when they’re going on their journey and choosing their quests that they have chosen what is best for them rather than being sold a bunch of other quests from other people. Because we live in a situation society where other people are often profiting off of. For really encouraging people to go on quests they do not need to be going on. They’re not profiting off of going on those quests. Other people are profiting off of it. So that’s what journey is. It’s your map. It’s how you’re going about it. It’s also how you reward yourself, how you add levels. So I have a reward system. It changes all the time. This is incredibly flexible. The ADHD and me, it’s. It doesn’t like I do. I’m not a consistent person. So I try to make things as flexible and usable as possible. And so this has changed so, so many times. But it’s always these three steps. You have a journey and then you kind of go into like, who as a character is going on this journey. We all have a character. That’s a very different thing than like, oh, I’m going to customize like the heck out of a character on Skyrim. I can’t do that as much. I mean, it’s my favorite part, character customization on games. So like, it’s. I wish you could customize some more stuff, but I can’t. And so instead I’ve. You can do aesthetics. What do you look like? What do you want other people to perceive? You have acceptance. There are taking steps to accept that there are things about you that you might not like, but it is better for you to accept them and like, work that into your story rather than trying to fight against it because that’s just a lot of energy that you probably don’t have. Then you have simple but not easy. These are the quests and just the mindset to actually do things you need to be doing. An example would be movement. In theory, movement is simple, but it’s not easy, at least for a lot of people to like, get started, know what to do, make sure they’re not getting hurt. Same with nutrition, even sleep for that matter. And so I use those like categories and there’s. There’s an. I use these categories to blend in self care in a way that’s really doable for me. And that, that anytime I hear like a new tip or any of the coping skills or any like, I used to do support groups for people with mental health conditions, used to facilitate those. So when we were talking about coping skills, I could like blend it into the system as well. Um, and finally I have. And this one’s silly, but it’s Personas. Um, I think of. I have four different Personas that I think of as like level ups or kind of like if in Skyrim you have different armor that has different like stats that you can add. Or I also sometimes think of it as the fairy from Zelda, like on your shoulder telling you what to do. And so I have Elf, who is the Persona that like gets like is like, it’s this one. It kind of a performer competent is the lawyer version of me. They’re analytical, logical. And then you have like a cozy halfling or a hobbit who like is trying to make sure that those simple but not easy tasks are also enjoyable. So making soup would be a hobbit task. And then you can light some candles and make things like aesthetic, put on some tavern music. And so it’s just adding an extra level of intentional vibe to a situation. A fairy is another one. And that one’s where you’re getting creative in a flow, having fun, allowing yourself to be messy. And then I have gremlin who is the version of me at 11pm at night who doesn’t want to go to sleep and is just like stuck on my phone scrolling. That’s who Gremlin is. And they’re. They’re all important. And if you’re in one for too long, the others are being neglected and so trying to make sure. And these are all choices. I’m not there. I don’t believe I’m any of these. Um, and so if somebody’s living with like dissociative identity disorder, do not recommend this part of the system for you. But it is a grab bag. So you can take some of the system and leave what doesn’t work for you. And then finally quests. And I have so many different types of quests. Yeah. And then I, I will go on. There’s two quests that I think are worthy to point out here. The first are rejection quests. Rejection quests are quests where you intentionally go after something in an attempt to get rejected. The huge caveat is that you need to be completely qualified and give it your best shot. And completely qualified is like, don’t take that too literally. Like if you’re like 80% qualified for something, shoot your shot type of idea. But if you get like a rejection letter or a rejection email, you have succeeded. And you can give yourself a like your reward points. And if you get accepted, you’ve lost your quest, but you got the thing that you were applying for anyway. And it helps reframe rejection. And then the other one is. And something that I’ve kind of based my entire business on are dragon quests. So if I believe that this is a video game or a like Dungeons and Dragons story, in the world we are in, there is not any magic. Right? There is not. We live in kind of more of a dystopian nightmare type of vibe rather than a Fantasy vibe right now. And I’m trying to think of it as more of a fantasy vibe. So I think of social injustices as dragons. So disability issues, racism, homophobia, classism, environmental issues. The list goes on and on and on and on. All these things are much bigger than any one person. They are being upheld by a group of people who are benefiting from them. A lot of people are ignorant to them until they’re hurt by them. And so it’s just easier to have, like, a thing like, these are dragons that can be fought for. Me, I needed to do this because I would often see these social injustices, especially once I was in law school learning about the actual, like, effects in the United States on certain systems, and I would get overwhelmed. I’d be like, I can’t do anything. I am powerless. And like, seeing a dragon, like a bunch of dragons, you just run. But instead, I was like, okay, but what if I specialize in one dragon? If a different type of dragon is hurting somebody, I can help support that person in their fight. But there are other leaders for those dragons. I will choose a dragon and be a leader for mine. And I will not go at it at it alone, because that’s how you get hurt by a dragon. You don’t fight a dragon alone. And so I started to create these, like, little principles and rules for myself to help make life a little more fun. So I’m not, like, always discouraged that there isn’t something I can do while also able to make quests and make progress. And it’s been really successful. I’m on. Like, I help teach attorneys about disability. I help different advisory councils throughout the state of Minnesota with how they’re structured to assess the mental health systems in their counties. I advise a national nonprofit on mental health through a committee. Like, there’s. There’s just so many things that I’ve had really awesome opportunities for as I’ve been able to learn more and more about the dragon that I’ve chosen, which is basically disability. It’s disability, mental health and neurodiversity. Ableism, really. So, yeah, those are two of the many different types. There’s so many. There’s so much here.

Rob:
Nice, nice. Very, very interesting. I love the approach and the way that you see it so that, you know, things seem to be at least a bit more manageable, which is something that we tend to struggle with. Follow. And Sierra, you’ve given a huge amount of recommendations. How about somebody that you would like to hear in an interview? Like this one, sort of a featured Guest for, For this podcast. Is there somebody that makes you curious? Somebody that’s inspired you from afar or from near? I don’t know.

Sierra Grandy:
There’s. Well, if I could. Anybody at all, it’d be Brennan Lee Mulligan. But that’s just because I’m a huge fan of his work. Or Brene Brown. But those are like celebrity celebrities for you as well. I think somebody who has absolutely no idea what gamification is or even like even going one step further. And somebody who thinks that gamification is like, like just fluff. Like so like I think an anti gamification person would be really interesting to hear their side. Not that I’d agree with it, but just more that it’s. It’s a helpful perspective because there are people like that. Um, and so that I guess that’s what I would like. A devil’s advocate type of situation.

Rob:
Love it. Love it. There’s. There isn’t. In fact, I would say I would have to look into the archives to see specifically. There are people who, depending on how you hear them and what you understand their work is you could argue that they are in the gamification space formally. That’s what they actually do. But they talk against gamification. And the, the. A big example would. Would be for. For some time. Not anymore. Jane McGonagall. She is one of the biggest references in gamification. Yep. And she used to be like openly saying she distastes gamification and that it doesn’t make any sense. And so on another one that I. We were in conversation, but we switched universities a few years ago and we sort of. I missed the context and I haven’t done it anymore. Is Ian Bogost, the video game designer and scholar. He, you know, he actually created. It’s funny, he created a very dumb game intentionally to show that it didn’t make any sense and that people would not fall for it. It was a cow clicker. You literally got points for clicking on the cow. And that was it. There was absolutely nothing else. But it died of its own success. Like people started clicking obsessively to get more points. Again with no objective. They were getting nothing out of it. People just got the points and it was like super successful. People went in, started clicking like crazy. So his argument against it would ended up being an argument that you could see as in favor. But anyways, Those could be two interesting people. Jane McGonagall for different reasons, but Ian Bogost, hopefully we’ll have him on the podcast and there is somebody I have interviewed, in fact a couple of times that Amy Jo Kim. I don’t know if you’ve heard of her.

Sierra Grandy:
I have not.

Rob:
Game thinking is her perspective. She likes to say that it’s far from gamification. It’s definitely not gamification and I get the argument, but if it’s not gamification, it’s very closely related, in my opinion. I’ve told her this, like, this is not. I’m not doing it. It’s sort of behind her back. We. We’ve even met in person a couple of times. But those would be interesting people to hear from for sure. They could be definitely on that list. You mentioned Bradley Morgan, right? Was the first one.

Sierra Grandy:
Bren Lee Morgan. He is a. An incredibly popular. He’s one of the most famous, like game masters for Dungeons and Dragons. He is a. He’s a comedian. He’s a comedian and professional game master and he works very closely with Dropout. And so that’s. Yeah, he’s. I don’t know. He’s really. It’s just a fun, fun guy. Like, it’s fun to see the way that he crafts stories. I’m a huge fan of watching Dimension 20 on Dropout. So that’s. I mean, that’s why I was like, ah, if we’re talking about games, going. Going with him.

Rob:
Sounds good. And how about a book? Is there any book that you recommend this audience in? Cagers.

Sierra Grandy:
Yeah. Gifts of Imperfection by Brene Brown. It’s not necessarily. It’s not a gamification book, but rather a kind of deep dive into why we feel like we need to be perfect about things. And I really, I really enjoy. I’m a huge Renee Brown nerd. I’ve read almost all of her stuff. But I do, I do recommend that book out of like, as the place to start or if that’s the first time you’ve ever heard the name Brene Brown. She has some of the most popular TED talks of all time. So it’s worth just checking out her TED Talks. Same with. I have a second one. It’s Mindset by Carol Dweck. Same idea where if you go on YouTube and look up her TED Talk, that’s one way if you don’t want to read the book. But that book focuses on the difference between a fixed mindset and a growth mindset. She’s the one who came up with those. And then that’s where it became popularized.

Rob:
They sound like brilliant recommendations, for sure. And how about we ask you about yourself? What is your superpower what’s that thing that you do at least better than most other people?

Sierra Grandy:
I’m really good at getting up on stages and being very vulnerable and talking about some of the darkest times of my life while also then being able to conclude that in a way that is powerful and has a lesson and then teach people about ableism. That is what I think I am the best at. I’m building a business right now and everything is hard except the service I provide. So marketing Difficult. Knowing how to actually sell to people. Hard. Actually getting up on large stages and sharing information and being silly and weird and eccentric in a way that people will remember and use the information. Good at that.

Rob:
Awesome. Awesome. How about a difficult question? Hard, fun. What is your favorite game?

Sierra Grandy:
If we’re talking like, like board game type of vibes. Not board game, but Dungeons and Dragons would be my favorite, like play it in the room type of game. My favorite party game is Business Walrus, which is a card game. And my favorite video game is Dark Cloud 2 from the PlayStation 2 era.

Rob:
So quite a few recommendations there.

Sierra Grandy:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s like when you think of like, favorite games, like, I can’t. Like, those are all in different categories. Yeah.

Rob:
As a gaming fan, I would always have a difficult time answering this question as well. So, Sierra, we’re arriving to the end of the interview. I want to make sure you have some time to give us any final words, piece of advice, call to action, wherever you want to lead us to, and of course where we can find out more about you.

Sierra Grandy:
Fantastic. I do want to remind people that they get to decide when their backstory ends and their journey begins. Like at any point they you decide, like, I don’t like what’s happening right now in my life. Just start calling whatever has been happening your backstory and take a different route. Um, and if you want to find me for my speaking engagements or like per, like personal type of things, you can find me@sierragrandy.com and if you like the questify your life system and that type of content, you can go to my substack which is questifyyourlife.substack.com or something like that. I don’t know the handle of how substack’s actually set up, but something similar to that. I also have a TikTok, which who knows where TikTok is going to be going with all the. All of the stuff happening in the United States, at least with the TikTok ban. But I do have a TikTok I occasionally use and that is questify your life. Sierra.

Rob:
Amazing. Amazing. Thank you again Sierra for coming in today, for investing your time in our audience and the engagers sharing plenty of your insights. However, Sierra and Engagers, as you know, at least for now and for today, it is time to say that it’s game over. Hey engagers and thank you for listening to the Professor Game podcast. And since you’re interested in this world of creating motivation, engagement, loyalty using game inspired solutions, how about you join us on our free online community at Professor Game on screen. You can find the link right below in the description, but the main thing is to click there. Join us. It’s a platform called School. It’s for free and you’ll find plenty of resources. There will be up to date with everything that we’re doing, any opportunities that we might have for you, and of course, before you go on to your next mission, before you click Continue, please remember to subscribe using your favorite podcast app and listen to the next episode of Professor Game. See you there.

(Pending – technical problems with the provider, will be up when possible)

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